« on: December 04, 2007, 11:18:38 AM » Reply #15

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

We don't kick for feeding. Most of us even cancelvote votekicks for feeding. The difference between feeding and battle grangering is that you can be told not to do one, and not do it. The other takes developed skill.

Anyhow, it seems that you have decided to "defend to the death" your right to ruin the game for others and be a pigheaded jerk in the face of your team's advice, so you can have fun with that the next time you try it and get banned. This thread is aaample warning already.

« on: December 04, 2007, 12:00:24 PM » Reply #16

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Quote from: Lakitu7 on December 04, 2007, 11:18:38 AM

We don't kick for feeding. Most of us even cancelvote votekicks for feeding. The difference between feeding and battle grangering is that you can be told not to do one, and not do it. The other takes developed skill.

Anyhow, it seems that you have decided to "defend to the death" your right to ruin the game for others and be a pigheaded jerk in the face of your team's advice, so you can have fun with that the next time you try it and get banned. This thread is aaample warning already.

I had a much longer post that you summed up a lot nicer in your second paragraph here, so we'll leave it at that.

« on: December 04, 2007, 03:27:23 PM » Reply #17

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Also: Issue:

Ok, pretend that noobs were allowed to be noobs and try everything out for themselves. This is a decent philosophy indeed! However, it cannot be applied in the Pure Tremulous server setting. Here is why I think so:

We have a continuous influx of new players by virtue of running a large-ish server near the top of the list.

If every new player was allowed to learn by experimentation, we would end up with just about every game being ruined by a tesla base, eggs in front of doors, trappers on the floor, and grangers camping outside of the human base, perhaps with an egg for easy spawning.

I agree that experimentation is the best way to learn, but the cost is wrecking the game for all the other players, all the time.

This, we cannot allow. Despite us having responsibilities towards the new players, we have obligations towards the older players who just want a good time.

On Pure Tremulous, we have struck what I consider to be a good balance between the two.

Please consider my words.

« on: December 29, 2007, 01:07:54 AM » Reply #18

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Quote

you know i hate it when people take a philosophy which is meant to be used as a good thing and stretch it to the extreme when it becomes a perverse twisted image of the intent of the message.

This is a valid reasoning technique known as "reductio ad absurdum" -- applying a principle to a situation outside that to which it was originally applied to demonstrate that it doesn't produce a desirable result in many cases, and is thus flawed.

« on: December 29, 2007, 01:10:26 AM » Reply #19

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

it doesnt nullify the principle in total though. just means it cant be applied to all situations

« on: January 07, 2008, 04:32:52 PM » Reply #20

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

The early exchange between Yoshi and Lakitu was unnecessary.  Yoshi's principles aren't so bad, but as Garoth explained, they are in conflict with the way Pure Tremulous operates.  On the other hand, there are plenty of other servers (usually smaller servers) where experimentation and silly fun happen and go unchallenged. 

« on: January 07, 2008, 05:19:59 PM » Reply #21

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Quote from: Twey on December 29, 2007, 01:07:54 AM

This is a valid reasoning technique known as "reductio ad absurdum" -- applying a principle to a situation outside that to which it was originally applied to demonstrate that it doesn't produce a desirable result in many cases, and is thus flawed.
[/quote]

wow twey I am very impressed. oh and what the caveman said on the geico commercial "say what"

« on: January 07, 2008, 05:30:53 PM » Reply #22

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

* Rend keeps the topic from straying

Twey is right though.

« on: January 07, 2008, 06:39:06 PM » Reply #23

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

I agree with what Garoth said about new players needing to experiment to learn. That is how I learned. I went to an available server with few people, then talked to some experienced players and learned the basics.

Sorry Garoth, but I would have to disagree with the part about how this ruins the game for people. I have had multiple new players join my team and mess up. Our team usually adapts to this problem, tells the new person what they have done wrong, and everything goes great. These mistakes are also good training. Experienced player learn how to deal with a problem such as a new person nadeing the base. It can also add some excitement to a somewhat boring game. If the humans and aliens are pretty much at a stand still where neither one can get to the other's base, then having someone taking out a few defences and letting a few aliens in, can help the humans stay on their toes.

« on: January 07, 2008, 07:43:56 PM » Reply #24

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Quote from: Angus Young on January 07, 2008, 06:39:06 PM

Sorry Garoth, but I would have to disagree with the part about how this ruins the game for people. I have had multiple new players join my team and mess up. Our team usually adapts to this problem, tells the new person what they have done wrong, and everything goes great. These mistakes are also good training. Experienced player learn how to deal with a problem such as a new person nadeing the base. It can also add some excitement to a somewhat boring game. If the humans and aliens are pretty much at a stand still where neither one can get to the other's base, then having someone taking out a few defences and letting a few aliens in, can help the humans stay on their toes.

It is a very rare situation when newbies doing stupid things are responded to gently and players actually help new players. From my experience there are four kinds of servers:

Newbies are absolutely untolerated/unwelcome (few)
Newbies are for the most part are ignored by the more experienced players who are too busy racking up kills(most servers)
Newbies actually get help on a regular basis (few)
And then there are the servers so laggy you can't tell the difference or everyone is messing around.

In smaller games I generally answer reasonable questions from new players and/or give them pointers to help them along. It's surprising how much explaining the dretch headshot helps.

« on: January 08, 2008, 04:38:24 PM » Reply #25

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

I didn't say EVERYONE tore newbs' heads off. I'm one of the people who just play to have fun. I've seen some pretty involved people play. You accidentally nade them while attacking the enemy, and they freak out, even after apologizing. I try and help new players when I can, but I hate it when more experianced players just ignore them, especially if you try to help them through team chat because they do not know how to use /m or /msg on some servers. This has happened to me before. I introduced a friend to Tremulous. She had no previous experience with any thing like it before. So when I tried telling her how to use the console, she didn't understand it and I was getting yelled at because of this. I even had someone try to ban me for spam.

« on: January 08, 2008, 06:09:46 PM » Reply #26

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Yeah I had the same problem trying to teach a friend to play. Everyone said I was spamming and kicked me and my friend. Needless to say, he went back to playing Gunz

« on: January 08, 2008, 07:11:36 PM » Reply #27

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Gunz was okay. The whole customization thing infused into a shooter was pretty sick, but the only  "quest" was going into the same room 20 times and killing a bunch of identical goblins. That and the really crappy servers finally pushed me to stop playing. (The quest servers weren't bad, it was when you started playing with 8 or more people.)

« on: January 09, 2008, 07:22:19 AM » Reply #28

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

Quote from: Lakitu7 on December 04, 2007, 02:08:37 AM

When I was new to this game I found the best players and specced them whenever I could. I tried to do whatever they said related to gameplay because they knew better. What in the world would ever make me think otherwise? I'm sorry but I expect others to at least make some attempt to listen to more experienced teammates. Playing "however you have fun" is great and all in games where you don't have teammates but when other people are relying on you, you need to try to become better to help them and ignoring them won't do that.

I use to spec the best player I could find as well just to get the basic skills from him/her and I wish noob more show me respect to the better players I constantly get kicked on Australian servers because noobs I have never seen before saying being good with goon is against the rules and kick me.

« on: January 09, 2008, 11:11:20 AM » Reply #29

Re: the right of newbs to be newbs

I say let them burn...

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_{Thus ends Killjoy's rant of the day}